Plagiarism

[Daffy Duck]

Sorry Master !   I'll clean my spectacles better next time.

Did you like my suggestion about writing partnerships as a way to avoid plagiarism ?

[Maxine]

I've missed a few posts on this thread so maybe I'm rehashing a few others' points here but:

1. If you have enough thought to copy, change a few names and a title and post then you have enough thought to know what you're doing.  End of story - no further discussion required/

2. I think most writers would be flattered if a new (or even an old writer) cited some inspiration from their work. In fact, I would encourage writers to say either at the start or the end that they were inspired by ... as it is also a neat stepping stone for the reader: 'Oh, I liked this story by ... and it was inspired by this story by ...' so they go and read it and continue to enjoy their time here.

3.  As we don't get paid it is not a question of lost royalties or anything like that.  It is simply about intellectual property.  I get it, the creative process is hard and we all go through lean periods of times of disinterest.  But, surely once you've been caught stealing ideas, nobody will ever believe an idea is yours ever again and that lack of credibility will likely hurt you should you ever have a good original idea.

And whilst I have not been the victim of plagiarism as far as I'm aware myself, I have been contacted (back when I used to write poetry) by somebody who wished to write a sequel to a narrative I'd written.  They were really respectful and outlined exactly where they intended to take things and said they would give me the chance to read it first before they sent it off.  I was really flattered that they loved what I'd written enough to write their own second part.  If everyone was as respectful as this person was, I'm sure most, if not all authors would be happy to at least engage the discussion about further work.

That is all.

[64Fordman]

I would like to add that Steve Spandex is the original victim which started this conversation, and he has been the voice of reason and common sense throughout. Thank you Steve.

[Steve Spandex]

Thanks Fordman

Never been accused of 'common sense' before! I must be losing my touch!!

But seriously though, I hope we don't have to hear too much more about this subject, but if any other incidents do turn up, I think we should all 'name and shame' via this thread on the  Plaza Forum. That way, at least we can all keep a lookout for these culprits on other websites. Just make a note of the story and author, so that we can all keep our eyes open if they crop up again somewhere else.  Sort of an 'offenders' register' if you like.

Steve

[Cutter]

As mentioned earlier there was an incident last year where a large number of stories from here were stolen by an individual and posted on Amazon for sale (and a few other sites). 

When the S-storm from our end hit and the stories were removed I watched the thief rant on her blog about 'haters' getting *her* stories removed.  This person didn't figure that someone would fight back.

I watch for stuff, I am blessed that I am friends with some models and 1 or 2 producers.  I report, turn in and turn over.

I may not post much on the forum, and I suck as a writer so no stories from me, but I will back you up.

[Daffy Duck]

From the wide assortment of different comments posted here, it appears most writers are not flattered as Maxine puts it, we are flipping angry.

But I accept the point made by Maxine that if a person wants to write a sequel, they should ask permission from the author, who might say 'yes' (but equally would be entitled to say "b*gger off" or words to that effect).

Yes, good communication can resolve things more peacefully. Part of the problem is that most offenders do it sneakily behind your back. So they probably KNOW they are doing wrong.

But most of the problem is that fact that if a writer has invested blood, sweat and tears in his/her creation, it is a cop out just to tweak it and then have the cheek to claim it as all your own work, when blatantly it is not.

A big thank you to all of you that agreed to report such things.

Authors don't get paid on this site. Readers pay nothing to use this site. So is it asking too much to watch our backs ?  After all, if authors get fed up, we leave, you guys lose as well.

Daffy

[Lobo De la Sombra]

Daffy, I do agree with much of what's been said in this thread, but there is one aspect I do want to point out.  In the past, I've seen 2 stories on the Plaza based on my own work.  One was a sequel to the second Bad Bargain story, and one was centered on one reader's actions after reading First Hand History.  Permission was not asked either time, but both authors were more than willing to clearly state the source of their ideas.  In both cases, considering the quality of the work, as well as the respect both authors showed for the original work, I took both stories as a compliment to my own work.  Asking permission is definitely preferred, but doing as these two writers did is a must.  Show respect for the original story and characters, as well as the time and effort that went into creating the original.  Of course, this is just my opinion on the matter, and there are at least as many opinions out there as there are people to express them, and none is inherently wrong, just different.

[Daffy Duck]

Lobo,

I understand and respect your viewpoint.

I just feel that if our stories are covered by copywrite, then legally (as well as morally) the original author should be asked and has the last word on the matter, as it is their story after all.

Daffy

[Shelley]

Hi Lobo.

I believe the quote in your posting...

>and one was centered on one reader's actions after reading First Hand History.  Permission was not asked either time, but both authors were more than willing to clearly state the source of their ideas.<

Was directed at my story 'Melanie's Mystery' for which I'd credited only Gromet's site rather than yourself.
For this I'd like to apologise.
 
>In both cases, considering the quality of the work, as well as the respect both authors showed for the original work, I took both stories as a compliment to my own work.<

Good, glad it met any expectations.
I know when we had the original 'how do you write' discussion on the old forum it was mentioned by myself that I'd originally written a sequal to somebody elses story. The Evil-Dolly 'Beauty in Repose'

That it is still one of my favourite tales says a lot, but it was also what got Wingco started.
I'd never dream of plagerising another person's stories but I guess there are some that sail close to the wind.

Kind Regards

Shelley.

Trapped in severe writers block while trying to finish the 'Water-Wheel' story, ironically that idea credited to a movie.

[Steve Spandex]

From the preceding comments, it is obvious that there are a lot of grey areas in this plagiarism/inspiration debate, and that we are never going to come to a complete consensus on this issue. As I've said before within this debate, we are all inspired by the stories we read, and the films we watch etc. If someone wants to write a sequel to something they've seen on the Plaza, then so long as its a different story and not the same plot rehashed, then I don't think anyone can complain too much. It might be courteous to inform the original author, but not everyone will.

Recently on the BBC in the UK, there has been a series called 'Dickensian' which (I'm led to believe) is a sequence of stories using characters from Charles Dickens' novels but with new 'what happened next' storylines. Or in other words, a sequel.  Whilst the purists might look down their noses at this, I haven't actually heard anyone shouting "plagiarism!!"

I think we need to concentrate on eliminating the real plagiarism, in which entire stories are taken by others and claimed as their own work, whether that be word for word, or merely plot theft.

I'm sure some will agree with me on this, whilst others will have differing opinions. But as I said at the start, I don't think we'll ever all totally agree where the line gets drawn between what's acceptable and what's not.

[64Fordman]

With Dickens it may be plagiarism but it is not illegal, copyright expires 75 years after the death of the author and Dickins died 146 years ago in 1870. His work is now in the public domain. But I agree with Steve, I think we’ve killed this topic, and no one should cut-and-paste a story and call it their own nor should Agatha Christi claim every murder mystery writer stole from her. Everything between is up for debate.

I do think these things should be handled privately whenever possible, if someone thinks a story is questionable send the author a private email, or if a reader thinks a story violates the writing guidelines they can send a private email to Gromet expressing their concerns and let him address the issue.

The public forum should be for sharing thoughts and ideas among the community of kink and fetish enthusiasts that we are. Acting like a bunch of angry birds will only discourage readers from posting comments and new authors from submitting their work.

[Daffy Duck]

Hi Steve,

A more well known example of sequels was Star Wars. Rumours have it when George Lucas filmed 4, 5, and 6, he made it clear, he wanted to do 1, 2,3, but gave permission for others to do 7 onwards.

The point is those who wrote sequels, books, etc. got permission from the original author.

As for grey areas: If it is word for word - clearly we all agree it is copying. If it is nearly word for word, with a just few minor tweaks - most would still agree it is copying. If it involves the same plot - most would also agree it is copying. When in doubt, simply ask the author !    A lot of stuff could be resolved amicably, I am sure, if people did this.

Hi 64Fordman,

I laughed out loud (in a good way) as your comment tickled me pink. It is also difficult to get permission from an original author if they're dead. Not sure what their estate might say. I ain't a legal beagle.

I hope that helps.

Daffy

[64Fordman]

Hi Daffy,

I laughed out loud too in a good way. George Lucas got $4 billion dollars (3.56 Billion Euro). That buys a lot of permission.

[Lobo De la Sombra]

Hi Shelley,
It is true that, in the story, you only mentioned Gromet.  I was thinking about a previous post in the old forum where I mentioned the same story.  In your reply, you did say you got the idea from First Hand History.  That was what I meant.

[Daffy Duck]

Hi 64Fordman,

Again, I cannot fault your logic !

All the best,

Daffy