Author Topic: Male or Female...and Why?  (Read 19452 times)

Daffy Duck

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #30 on: August 11, 2016, 11:24:57 pm »
Cheers Dana.

Like Lobo, I have stories in different sections. Ten, to be exact (not that its a competition.....)

I wanted to try my hand at seeing if I could write in different sections. Not surprisingly, I found that I was worse in some than others.

I agree, it helps to a) have a passion in the subject and b) have some knowledge of the subject or c) just a great imagination and try to wing it !

I hope that by exploring different genres, readers will also try something different. You never know you might like it, unless you try.

Daffy



« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 11:33:34 pm by Daffy Duck »

ElectroPainLover

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #31 on: August 11, 2016, 11:34:43 pm »
Yes Daffy...You were another one I was thinking of who write across the genres.

I just couldn't believably write a story about trash cans or trucks. Nor could I write a story about encasement. I have no experience to use as a story-base hand have it close to what readers of these genres want. They would see right through my bullshit...Even though Stephen King said that "all writers are liars and I'm one of the biggest." (From 'On Writing' by Stephen King.)

I will probably never surpass being published in two genres in the Wonderful World of Bondage.

Dana -- EPL

Daffy Duck

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #32 on: August 11, 2016, 11:39:26 pm »
Hi Dana,

I have the same fear. 

And yes, readers do see through story plots that they feel lack something.

Indeed, I am surprised my critics have not seen right through me. I'm an innocent chap, that has zero experience.

But that has not stopped me writing 136 stories across 10 genres.  It is fiction after all.....

Daffy

Maybe I should have kept that a secret !

If quoted, I shall deny all !!

« Last Edit: August 11, 2016, 11:43:20 pm by Daffy Duck »

ElectroPainLover

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #33 on: August 11, 2016, 11:53:18 pm »
Hi Daffy,

No need for secrets here...this is a place to let your hair down! Oh, yea, I have no hair...oh well...you get my point.

I have not seen too many errors in the plots of the stories I have read of yours. The one's I have read have been well written and well told. I just wont be reading any you may have written about trash, latex, super-hero's, devoured, etc. because I am just not interested in those subjects. Not because the stories are poorly written, but because the subject doesn't spark my curiosity.

One of my main interests outside the world I play in here is physics. I don't care much for movies that fall outside of it, nor, stories that cannot stay fairly within the bounds of physics. I understand that trash and latex and the such are well within Einstein's theories. However, I have a thing for art, and I believe a woman's naked body is just that...A work of Art. So, latex is like trying to look at the Mona Lisa when it's covered by a blanket.

How long as it taken you to write 136 stories? I submitted 5 this week, but 136 is damned impressive.

Dana -- EPL

Daffy Duck

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #34 on: August 12, 2016, 12:27:23 am »
Hi Dana,

Many thanks for your kind words.

I think latex or leather or polythene, is mainly about the sensual touch of the material on the skin. Albeit, it can be also about sensory depravation / enclosure.

Trashcan is linked to objectification, machine, packaged, buried and bound genres.

Objectification appeals to me as I think it is the ultimate submissive act. A slave has the right to disobey. An object has no say in what happens to it.  However, transformation into living objects does not appear to obey Newtonian or Quantum physics, or at least, it has not been invented yet !

I only started writing in November 2014. Before I discovered the Plaza, I had little desire to read or write fiction. And, like many of us, I felt alone in my thoughts. So thanks Gromet.

Daffy

Offline MaxRoper

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #35 on: August 12, 2016, 05:47:16 pm »
Hooray for Gromet indeed!

Before the Plaza there was Tied & True Tales which ended rather suddenly (alas, poor Mason - does anyone have any news of him?) and before that there was very little with the depth and organization we receive here. A few things in magazines and at alt.sex.bondage and at Literotica, but nothing like the cornucopia Gromet presents for us.

Like Dana, I've sampled all the sections in the Plaza and while there are many excellent writers, I don't find my horizons expanding. It's still rope bondage and little else that turns my crank.

Max

Daffy Duck

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #36 on: August 12, 2016, 05:50:09 pm »
Hi Max,

Nice to hear you have a least given the other sections of the Plaza a decent airing. But, I agree, it is only natural we all have our favourites.

Daffy

Offline 64Fordman

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #37 on: August 12, 2016, 09:44:57 pm »
Hi new members,

Just to recap a discussion from the old forum, what section a story gets posted to can be somewhat subjective. If you completely shun a section because it’s not your thing, you may be missing some great stories with elements that are your thing.

ElectroPainLover,

A quick scan of the latex section turned up the following stories.

Happy Anniversary, My Slave by Slave Manchester: A male is tortured by his female mistress with a violet wand.

Spandex BDSM by M88: A female uses a TENS in self-bondage.

Okay, you will have to read through a paragraph or two about what the characters were wearing, hey it’s a latex story.

MaxRoper,

Family Ties by 64Fordman: Yes, it’s shameless self-promotion. This story is full of rope bondage, but because mother and daughter change places in a Freaky Friday type story line it’s in the transformation section.

The point is there are gems all over the Plaza, you just have to do a little digging.

ElectroPainLover

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #38 on: August 12, 2016, 10:03:13 pm »
Thanks Fordman. I will have to check them out.

Dana - EPL

Daffy Duck

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #39 on: August 13, 2016, 12:01:51 pm »
To add to the wise words of Fordman, I would say that some stories (notably mine - more shameless self promotion) overlap the dozen or so main story headings on the Plaza. For example some of the trashcan characters are shrunk and thrown away by a giantess - so these stories could fit in Giantess or Trashcan. Some of my objectification stories found in Transformation or Doll, have a trashcan ending.  So I hope that people do check out different sections. You may be pleasantly surprised by what you find.

Daffy
« Last Edit: August 13, 2016, 12:04:42 pm by Daffy Duck »

Offline AmyAmy

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #40 on: August 14, 2016, 03:49:36 am »
I think people probably overthink the difference between male and female. People are basically people. Women just have a couple of different things they need to worry about. There is one huge gulf in thinking, and that's pregnancy. For a man, a pregnancy situation might be a financial burden, a stressful responsibility, a cause for celebration, or perhaps, no big deal. For a woman, it could completely transform her entire life, permanently, and it is always a big deal. That said, some people are oblivious to pretty much anything, and that's not limited by gender at all.

Apart from the big difference, the same emotions and reasoning applies to all humans, except the insane, and even they follow much the same logic, but with some critical breakage.

Sure, different people are more or less empathic, happy, angry, violent, etc., but these are not things decided by gender so much as basic personality.

How they are expressed certainly varies, but that's a result of cultural filters that differ as much from place to place, time to time and class to class as through gender. If you're writing historical, or sci-fi, those things are going to be different to how they are today.

If you're writing erotic stories though, there are genre rules.

If you want your BDSM females to be "in genre", they are pretty much always fierce dominants, vengeful wives intent on sissifying their husbands, or nymphomaniac submissives. There must be other tropes, but most stories have one of those three, with "reluctant and miserable captive, desperate to escape" following up the rear somewhere. I guess I could come up with a better list, but this covers most stories I think.

For males, the tropes are different, some match the female tropes like jigsaw pieces: willing gimp, good master, bad master, unwitting sissy, but occasionally we see "genuine partner guy" who is on an even footing with a "genuine partner gal"; these two will take it in turns, probably alternating scenes, it's that obvious - but these stories always seem to be male protagonist tales. I can't, off-hand, think of an even partner story with a female protagonist (there must be some, but I'm guessing not many).

Bad master clearly contains a bit more range than its opposite. The bad guys range from merely overbearing, to psychopathic kidnappers that cut off people's limbs and make them drown in shit. Fierce dominant woman is pretty much the mirror image here. A lot of these "bad" characters could easily be gender swapped, you wouldn't know.

The good guys have much less range. The main difference is usually in the females paired with him, are they going to be "slaves for life", or are they in a more equitable scenario? In either case, the patriarchal good master has their interests at heart and gives them what they need, not what they want. What a nice guy! Good master's female equivalent is rarely seen. Very rarely seen I think. It's almost always the case that when a woman makes decisions for a man, she is either bad, or mad, or unwilling. It is really hard to think of any stories where "good mistress" is the protagonist, even harder to think of one where she doesn't end up taking turns on the bottom at times.

Obviously, plenty of sub-tropes within the sissy stories, but the main variation is whether the story is pure homosexual or male and female. In both cases, the focus and protagonist is almost always the sissy, almost never the partner.

One oddball genre is the "curious experimenter", this is not a common pattern except in Lobo's stories. The experimenter might be playing with anything; a machine that gives you a ten-foot penis, a gender swapper, rubberiser, magic-fingers, whatever. The experiment often determines the necessary gender of the protagonist, but the character will usually be a fairly neutral type, not someone with a strong existing kink, with the particular exception of experiments involving rubber, which always seem to be performed by extreme rubber addicts.

A Pensive Pen

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #41 on: August 14, 2016, 04:14:18 am »
Great post, AmyAmy, but I want to add something.

Genre is an incredibly important point that most people, I think, instinctively follow without fully realizing it. Stories, here and otherwise, do follow genre tropes and patterns, and I'm really really glad it's being brought up here. But we can't forget the other side of the coin, which is how we can subvert genre.

This is absolutely a situation where a writer needs to know the rules before they can break them. But a person can take the very same character archetypes you mentioned and twist them around. It's something I try (still working on the 'success' part) to do in my own writing. I love writing 'bad masters' or sadists who are ultimately revealed to be loving characters carrying out the wishes of their submissives. Yay dramatic irony!

One thing I really don't care for in a lot of bdsm fiction is having doms who clearly cross the line, and subs who clearly don't consent or like what's happening, only to have it all handwaved away because the sub has an orgasm and magically decides they like it after all. That's pretty much a genre trope on its own, but that doesn't mean I have to either follow it or avoid larges groups of story topics. I'm going to subvert that any time I can. I think it makes for more compelling stories anyway.

Offline Arkane

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #42 on: August 14, 2016, 09:20:11 am »
I think people probably overthink the difference between male and female. People are basically people. Women just have a couple of different things they need to worry about. There is one huge gulf in thinking, and that's pregnancy.

Another one is homosexuality. Females treat it as it's not a great deal, this is true often enough in the real world and near always true in the bdsm porn-fantasy worlds. For (a lot of) men is a big difference being the one who puts "it" in, or the one receiving it, so to speak. This, I think, is another limit for males as story characters.
In a way this could be true even in domination: I think it's more difficult to imagine a dominant man wanting to swith. Or it's just me?

Offline AmyAmy

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #43 on: August 14, 2016, 03:28:12 pm »
I'm right with you on this one PP, nicely put.

I wrote a rather long story with the intent of illuminating this point, so I guess my old arguments are still around if you look for them. I'm still hung up on the issue of consent, and still digging into it in my writing. I've queried the plaza classification of "reluct" in the past, and it might just be me, but a few of those "reluct" people seems full-on non-consenting to me. Which takes us into how to explain consent with tea (or french-fries in the American version), and how it doesn't seem to work quite so well in BDSM-land.

When it comes to subverting the genre, I think a lot of people hate when it happens. Genre is the main thing they have to base their story choice on, and when you mess with it, they end up grumpy. I'm not sure if Narelle's Discovery got zero interest because it was rubbish, or because it genre twisted brutally, twice, and also pulled the rug on the chastity trope. Not saying writers shouldn't do it, just that the audience might be split on how satisfying it is. If I said genre subversion was bad, it would be a severe case of pot calling the kettle.

One thing I really don't care for in a lot of bdsm fiction is having doms who clearly cross the line, and subs who clearly don't consent or like what's happening, only to have it all handwaved away because the sub has an orgasm and magically decides they like it after all. That's pretty much a genre trope on its own, but that doesn't mean I have to either follow it or avoid larges groups of story topics. I'm going to subvert that any time I can. I think it makes for more compelling stories anyway.

A Pensive Pen

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Re: Male or Female...and Why?
« Reply #44 on: August 14, 2016, 07:59:08 pm »
Absolutely, many stories here mask non-consent as reluctance. It can be unsettling at times. I understand that consent in these stories can involve shades of grey, and I sometimes work within that space in my own work, but it's far too easy to take advantage of that ambiguity.

As for Narelle's Discovery, I hadn't heard of it before but I just read through it. Overall I'm glad I read it, as you craft fantastic prose, but I don't believe I fully understood the twists in the plot. I'm lost as to how Scott and Part 1 as a whole fits into the overall arc, and (trying not to spoil anything) I wasn't able to easily decipher everything about the Nelly character after reading the end. Maybe on a second read-through I'd better understand your signposts.

As a whole though, I didn't have any issues with how you handled genre. I found it quite refreshing at times (especially how you handled chastity), though some of the scenes and sadism were more intense than I personally prefer. In fact, that aspect is what kept me reading to the end. It was clever and unconventional in the best way.

Sorry if that's off topic, but after you mentioned it and I looked at the story, I found it to be a piece that deserved discussion and not obscurity :)

 

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