I am attracted to reluctant/forced stories or almost rape stories is there a place where there congregated or talked about like on reddit..?? (is there a storycode name I'm missing?) I also wonder if there's specific porn that is that way too? (that I don't know about)
Much of movie maker/porn John Fitzgerald stuff for example I'm pretty attracted too.. though I believe he's left the industry.. movies like Sisters (https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=716649091), Undercover (https://www.pornhub.com/view_video.php?viewkey=ph559ad43d0f7ff), Slick City etc. seem to bare that special theme etc. I like.. Also some Natasha Flade and Chimera (good for the self bondage crowd, I should think) and Bound Honey's do bare the themes I like.. at times
Hello themaster and welcome to Gromet's Plaza Forums.
With regard to your question about reluctant/forced...the story codes for those scenarios are -- 'reluct' and/or 'n/c' -- however, technically, Gromet doesn't allow 'rape' material on his website(s). Granted, many stories come very close or border on rape...especially the legal definition of rape, of which, there are numerous stories which cross the line of rape under the legal definition.
The 'n/c or nc' storycode stands for 'non-consentual'. Whereas 'reluct' is where the sub is usually willing to try the scenario but not sure about it.
As for a 'Section', no...the stories are categorized by genre and not by 'willingness' of the participants.
Also, there are indicators for how 'intense' the story is. It is indicated by a series of 'X's'. 'X' being the most mild and 'XXX' being severe. Some even include a 'Warning' of their exreme intensity. So, if you are looking for a story which is 'hardcore & non-consensual' you would look for a storycode listing which includes '...nc; XXX'.
Here is a link to a story by Jackie Rabit which includes hardcore and n/c. The 'cons/nc' means the Dominate is consentual on the acts and the submissive is not.
http://grometsplaza.net/forum/index.php?topic=1624.msg4367#msg4367 -- "Reporter in Peril" by Jackie Rabbit
I hope this helps.
Dana
Quote from: ElectroPainLover on April 28, 2017, 09:02:26 PM
The 'n/c or nc' storycode stands for 'non-consentual'.
I hope this helps.
Dana
ahh thanks for that.. that helps immensely :) you'd think me coming here for years.. I'd know that..? but
nope didn't :P
You're very welcome...sometimes the most obvious is the easiest to look over ;)
Always here to, and glad to help.
Dana
***Adendum***
I guess I would be remiss if I didn't do this... Storycodes --> http://www.grometsplaza.net/pages/storycodes.html
Dana
Quote from: ElectroPainLover on April 28, 2017, 09:02:26 PM
http://grometsplaza.net/forum/index.php?topic=1624.msg4367#msg4367 -- "Reporter in Peril" by Jackie Rabit
so this story should be on this page..
http://www.boundstories.net/bdauthorslr.html
but it's not..
so..is the author section just not complete/sometimes messed up?
How do I go about asking for
favorite stories of the type I'm looking for..I would think that would help save some time for me too? :)
and if one wants to search gromets you have a little write up for a google search.. or...???
Actually...the authors are listed by the first letter of their Screen-name. For Jackie Rabbit, that would be in the 'J's'. If an author's Screen-name starts with a number...64Fordman, they are indexed by the letter of the first alpha-numeric letter...in this case 'S'.
As there are many single word names...ElectroPainLover for example, it is easiest to go with the first letter of the first word in the screen-name so not to be confusing by having some with the first letter of their screen name yet others by the first letter of their second name.
Also, Gromet is working on an update which will allow for searches by 'storycodes'. Technically it can be done now...but in the future will be much more accurate. Currently, a search searches the whole document for a match to the boolean search words and can hit words used in the story's body but not be a key element of the story. In the future, it will only search the list of storycodes in the story if using the storycode search option. Again...this is a future option that is not currently in use.
As for a search...using the "Search" link will open a box to allow you to put in the words you wish to search for. There is a bottom section which can be dropped down by a '+' (plus mark) in the lower left box by the "Check All" checkbox and you can pick which sections you wish to check. As for a Google search...I haven't done it much. I use the 'in-house' search tool when wanting to look for a particular type of story.
Hope this helps.
Dana
One of the things with the plaza is that there has always been a little opacity between the writer's guidelines and what gets posted. Ultimately, Gromet makes a call on what he thinks is acceptable, and the guide merely expresses his intent.
Another thing with the plaza, is that is has always categorized stories based on very broad genre headings. It's a decision with up sides and down sides.
It has never allowed key-word searches. While I don't think it would be technically that big a deal to add keywords of some kind (but what would I know?), the chore for Gromet, to assign category keywords to existing stories would be overwhelming with all the old stories there are. Perhaps with the new and energetic moderators it might be possible; but that would be up to them, and it would be greedy to ask for it.
Making the existing "story codes" searchable, seems like a purely technical task, but I've always thought that system of story-coding wouldn't help me find stories I wanted. It often fails to say much about the story's key categories and often nothing at all about tone.
It has its root in the old newsgroups, which were tightly genre focused to start with, and were originally intended to differentiate nuances of fairly "vanilla" sex stores. Gromet adds numerous code words of his own, perhaps with an eye to future searchability, but for now you have to open the story to see them, unless it's on the front page.
If you're looking for particular stories, maybe it makes more sense to ask in a genre specific section of the plaza rather than general discussion, but to be fair, the OP wasn't just asking about the plaza.
Personally, I think it's an act of mental gymnastics to have stories coded "n/c" and say that rape stories are against the guidelines. I guess that the intent was to discourage the worst kind of rape glorification stories. Some stories show rape, or molestations that don't happen to involve penetration with a penis, but which are basically worse than rape, but they have an ethical grounding that presents the act as awful, which we could say justifies choosing to show it for "artistic reasons"; the point made is anti-rape. A lot of the time, the reader is asked to identify with the victim, which maybe makes it less bad too - but some may not see that distinction as helpful.
My old story "Betrayal" presents a number of extremely nasty acts, but never gives the impression they are fun, or that the protagonist enjoys them; the clear message is that it's damaging - horribly damaging - and at the end everyone is diminished by the events that took place. It was written as a kind of protest against stories where horrible things happen as pornography. It's not written in a way that is titillating, it's written to provoke disgust.
There are plaza stories that include acts that fuzz between "n/c" and "reluct", or where considerable coercive force is applied, and they vary in ethical grounding, but there is at least some room for doubt, or the bad guys get their comeuppance, or the victims escape, or we learn they were always complicit and weren't really victims. What I mean to say, is that it's at least possible to construct an ethical or artistic apology for those questionable elements.
However, there are a few stories, very few perhaps, that I believe should never have been posted here, and which violate pretty much every writer's guideline (and then some), and in which the villains get away with their actions, and profit from them, and in some (the worst) the victims also ultimately come to accept what is done to them as normal, or forgivable. I do not think such stories are even remotely in accord with the moral tone of the plaza. Some readers will know which stories I am talking about; I'll leave it at that. While I think such stories should be allowed to be seen somewhere, I don't think they are right for the plaza, but it's not my call.
Limiting what is on the plaza is different from believing that censorship is a beneficial approach, or makes the world a better place, or humans better people.
Something the OP raises, perhaps unintentionally, is the ethical quandry surrounding fantasizing about an unethical act, as the victim, and wanting to see stories that portray that. Somebody looking from outside might view those stories as promoting unethical behaviour - extremely unpleasant and illegal behaviour - and view them as the worst kind of pornographic filth: the exact kind of thing they feel must be removed everywhere it appears, destroyed, and erased from human consciousness, (and the creators punished) as if the very ideas themselves can be erased. Such individuals, appointed, or self-appointed, are always on the lookout for examples of what they hate so they can destroy it with fire and brimstone.
It is a dangerous territory, and there are dragons there.
I had forgotten about that particular story, as it turns out a rather dark one all things considered. I don't recall if it was inspired by some horror novel I had read, or if it was the sole product of my own twisted thoughts, but if it was collectively felt that it didn't belong on the plaza I would be fine with removing it.
It has always been my intention to entertain and not offend, and if this one crosses that line I apologize, Jackie.
I'm very interested in this topic, but have no desire to throw stones.
But I'll say that in general, bdsm (et al) is a subject matter that begs for a deep and meaningful look at ideas like consent, as well as the apparent paradox of a person *wanting* superficially negative things to happen to them.
As Amy mentioned, sometimes a good plot involves bad things happening. Villains will do awful things, which in this genre can mean nonconsent. While I have my personal barometer of how much is too much (an "I know it when I see it" kind of deal), I can see a place for it the same way people tolerate (and enjoy) deplorable acts of violence in horror movies, even though such things would be universally repugnant in real life.
But just like horror movies, indecent should acts only make it on screen (whether silver or your monitor) because of understood agreements between the creators and the audience: that such things are acknowledged as horrific, that they have no legitimized place in real society, that the subjects of these acts are victims,and that if their perpetrators prosper it is a tragedy. Both the audience AND the creators need to respect those parameters.
When stories bulldoze through those agreements, and further abandon any exploration of incredible bdsm-specific themes like consensual-nonconsent, submission, control/power, etc, that's where my issue come up. Then stories are condoning, intentionally or not, explicitly or implicitly, the acts they describe. And I don't think that's okay.
BDSM's veneer of abuse (though when done in a oft-stated safe, sane, and consensual way, is not abuse at all) makes it a tricky subject matter. Writers need to demonstrate their awareness of that.
Regarding the consensual / nonconsensual conversation, I don't believe the nc designation refers exclusively to rape. All of my stories carry the cons/nc story code and none involve forced sex acts, some of my stories don't have any sex at all.
My understanding was it involved situations that didn't end the way the submissive intended, for example, a character handcuffs and blindfolds themselves for a self-bondage game and their roommate comes home and takes the key, would be considered cons/nc even if nothing else happens in the story. I could be completely mistaken of course, which isn't unusual.
Also, 'Reporter in peril' is not offensive, it is an awesome story.
Quote from: jackierabbit1 on April 29, 2017, 11:18:39 AM
I had forgotten about that particular story, as it turns out a rather dark one all things considered. I don't recall if it was inspired by some horror novel I had read, or if it was the sole product of my own twisted thoughts, but if it was collectively felt that it didn't belong on the plaza I would be fine with removing it.
It has always been my intention to entertain and not offend, and if this one crosses that line I apologize, Jackie.
Hey Jackie...it wasn't anything directly about your story for it to be brought up. I merely offered it as an example of the 'nc; XXX' and it only came up because it just happened to be one that I was repairing the links on at that moment. I also thought it might be one 'themaster' would be interested in by having those storycode attributes. I, in know way, was indicating it as being 'too hardcore' or anything of the such.
I have not read the story as yet...but most assuredly will in the upcoming future (controversy sparks interest)...but it simply was on my screen, both in html format and in reading format, at the time of the question.
Please accept my apology for it being brought into a 'negative light' if it so has.
Dana
I can easily see how that could happen Dana, and no I'm not the least bit offended. Your doing a phenomenal amount of work on all of our behalves here at the plaza, and I for one appreciate what you (and others) are doing as I have no particular skill or aptitude for such things.
I didn't mean to come off as being oversensitive, and truth be told one could make a good argument that the story in question is dark, and that the characters that apparently come out on top have few redeeming virtues. They are ruthless and without an ounce of remorse, but our reporter knows this and still let her guard down long enough to get into a limo with a stranger while unarmed and wearing almost nothing, sealing her fate. There is probably a moral to that story in there somewhere, but all characters have a fatal flaw.
As a side note, The "B" Grade Lingerie Model is a continuation of this story, although Nina the reporter apparently remains on permanent display, but perhaps one day yet to be thawed out.
Best wishes, Jackie.
Thank you Jackie...both for your understanding and your accolades for the team. We are all working to make Gromet's Plaza the premier place to find fetish-oriented stories and the Forum the place to discuss them and our thoughts.
I'm glad you didn't feel as if I was singling you or your story out. I was honestly only using it as an example of 'storycodes' coding as was asked in the original post. It was literally 'In My Face' at the moment and I used it. However, I did not believe you were being over-sensitive and were offering to remedy a situation, which, I do not believe exists. I've offered some stories to Gromet which have yet to be published and doubt that they will be. After re-reading them...they are way too dark and, in my own opinion, 'over-the-line' to be published here.
All of our authors are very important to us/me and I do not want to chafe anybody wrongly and start unnecessary controversy. My mood of late has been somewhat dark and I should back away from chat and keep with the work at hand... :D
Dana
ahh yah... umm.. I still didn't get my question answered.. :P
ahh.. how do I compile "best of" story list on the forum.. something like that would be helpful to me.. because besides for coming around a long time.. I haven't seen a list like that.. and honestly my luck with gromets.. is often more "miss" then hit of finding the story types I'm looking for which are honestly not easy :P
And I will certainly submit a list of my favorite stories here sometime.. it's too bad gromets doesn't have all the great stories that got pulled from usenet.. I have 1 or 2 that I found usenet.. that aren't here I think? :P
Sorry about that Themaster, conversations can sometimes meander, that's life in an open forum.
Stories at the Plaza are categorized mainly by bondage type, clothing and location. Forced sex acts can occur in any genre.
My suggestion is to start a topic with 2 or 3 story titles you have enjoyed from here or from another story site, and ask members to discuss their favorite stories with similar story lines, you may discover stories or sites you didn't know about.
One word of caution, if you post links here to stories from another site, make sure the stories don't violate Gromet's guidelines.
@themaster
I'm sorry for not addressing this question either...however...favorite stories by who's idea and based upon what? There are too many subject matters and types of stories for any 'one' list of favorites to even come close to tickling everybody's fancy. There is a section for favorite stories in 'Favorite Story Lists'.
Arkane put together a long list of favorite stories --> http://grometsplaza.net/forum/index.php?topic=1378.0 <-- but, do they suit your liking...I don't know.
As everybody's taste here is based upon one genre or another, or two or three different ones; and, as you can see by the small controversy the 'nc' storycode garnered here, who would or could build a list of favorites based upon what 'you' enjoy reading. That answer is you and you alone. Sorry to sound so brunt on it, but there are far too many types of stories for anyone to make a 'favorite list' of stories to cover every genre and sub-genre.
As for Gromet's having the old usenet stories...Gromet's Plaza is solely an 'Author Submitted' story site; always has been and always will be. Gromet does not troll the internet and add stories to the site as he sees fit. He only posts stories sent to him by their original author. He would be putting his licensing agreement in jeopardy and possibly face legal action to post stories otherwise.
I hope this additional information helps.
Dana
To be fair to the OP, I don't think he suggested that he would find old usenet stories here, or that he expected anyone to post them - he simply wants to find them.
To Jackie, I certainly did not have your stories in mind when I was voicing some concerns.
As for the issue of true reluctance. It raises complex questions. Probably, most would agree that stories where people are essentially coerced into some kind of "consent", are far beyond mere reluctance.
For a story to be about reluctance, the reluctant party must be hesitant; they must have some degree of pre-existing interest in the idea or curiosity about it, or they must be open to persuasion. The act cannot be too far beyond the limits of what they might have chosen for themselves given the opportunity. However, if the alleged persuasion involves extreme reward-punishment scenarios, it's not persuasion at all, it's coercion.
But in true reluctance, how much persuasion pushes it over the edge into coercion, or entrapment? There is no sharp dividing line. What sort of trickery and deception is OK? Any at all? What if the persuader, doesn't even know they are being misleading? You can create a lot of scenarios in that gray area.
Probably, the majority of the stories on the plaza marked reluct do not fit my definition of reluctance. I'd call most of them coercion, and some look a lot like rape. The only way you can argue reluctance for them is by some spin on "no means yes", where fantasy characters lack the conviction to sign up to acts they unconsciously want to experience.
It's certainly not enough simply to say, it's fantasy to make coercion into reluctance. Fantastic content don't turn a rape story, or a coercion story into "n/c reluct", all it does is make it less horribly realistic, softening the impact. At the extreme end of softening, is outright comedy. Comedy is always a possibility, even when the topics are dark. It would be nice to see more funny stories I think.
There are many mitigators that take a story from bleak pornography, or hate-tract, into the realm of art, or satire, or fantasy, but no mitigation can make a story about reluctance when it's really about misuse of power.
But the plaza is relatively benign. In stark contrast to the relatively fuzzy plaza, there are sites pretty much built on sexism, racism and the sick enjoyment of torture. Ever since I got a sense of "what is out there", I can't rest. It makes me feel sad and angry and helpless all at once. Those sites and stories can't be stopped by crude measures, and trying would be wrong for all kinds of reasons, but surely many people could be educated not to want them? Somehow. I guess I can dream.
They are only stories, but stories help to normalize ideas. Good ones as well as bad.
One role of horror is to remind us that the things in horror stories are actually horrible, and when they crop up in real life, they desperately need to be stopped.
I have no problem with NC but every place has its own rules and this one makes no exception.
But...
Maybe the rules should be implemented in a constant, balanced way, and the author being excluded from publication (which happened to me) should receive an explanation note (did I break some rule? The story sucked so bad? My english was not good enough?).
Search by story codes could be a good thing if implemented. People receiving a shock from the content they read should remember that, all in all, they are reading porn [or "explicit erotic writings," if you feel the p word should be skipped here].
This comes back to the issues presented in the "reluct n/c" thread that started before the forum crash.
I've quoted some of the writer's guide below, as a reminder. They are Gromet's rules. He made them, he abides by them voluntarily, and they mean whatever he means them to mean...
Gromet's primary justification for including rape or non-consensual acts is when they are "fantasy".
The same applies to the story codes, they are applied by Gromet as a best effort in consistency, but it's hard for anyone else to know exactly where he draws the line on n/c. Personally, I have queried why "reluct" appears on many stories that go far beyond mere reluctance, and perhaps I'm being obtuse, but I didn't really understand the explanation.
In fact, I was so baffled by the response, that I have made the issue of reluctance, and the dividing line between coercion and consent the focus of all my stories since.
I think if the guidelines are going to be as they are, then we need to ask questions about their definition, and what benefits they bring to Plaza readers. And to do that we need to understand the meaning of the language used to formulate them. I think that leads into a discussion of what the story-codes are supposed to signify, and what they actually mean, and whether those two things are the same.
The story-code approach has its roots in old news groups, and those news groups were (by and large) tightly genre focused. The codes were never designed to distinguish the most important components of a story, such as genre or tone. They serve this to some extent, in that there are the x, xx, xxx letters for explicitness, but a sweet romance might be explicit, while a violent rape might be described quite sketchily, and so we're back depending on Gromet's personal interpretation when those codes are set, and there is no way around that, it's inherent in the system.
I have the vague sense that Gromet is slowly heading towards some kind of keyword system, as found in many other places. This will fix some problems for readers, but like story-codes, it's subjective, and there's no way around that problem, no matter what system you have. The main advantage of keywords is for people hunting for material in the archive, who would benefit immensely.
My intuition is that the writer's guide is simply designed as a hint to that authors should not write stuff that is too far off the tone of the rest of the Plaza. Ultimately, it's entirely subjective, and because of the caveats it does involve a bit of mind reading.
It bothers me a little, because from time to time, I come across a story that contains highly extreme n/c material that I feel lacks any redeeming qualities. I would have been thankful for some up-front clue that such a story was a bit borderline.
There are other cases, where I believe the absolute guidelines have been breached. For example, use of children in stories, and my complaints were disregarded without response. Due to the lack of engagement in this issue, my confidence in the Plaza has been eroding, and I feel increasingly motivated to comment on the encroachment of dark stories that are pure titillation, with no redeeming features. I also find my motivation to write under such circumstances, considerably diminished.
The plaza writers guide says:
What type of stories don't you use?
Any stories containing:
Paedophilia, sex, abuse, incest or eroticism involving children under 18.
Underage: Descriptions or depictions of child sexual abuse or any other exploitative or offensive descriptions or depictions involving a person who is, or appears to be, a child under 18 years.
Rape or non-consensual forced acts of a sexual nature.
Bestiality or sexual acts involving animals (not vore)
Incest stories are not welcome on the Plaza & is a crime in most countries
Drug Use, any scenes that promote illicit drug use.
Human Toilet, defecation or anything to do with Feces; also known as scat, scatophilia or fecophiliascat play. Also include vomit.
Necrophilia, interfering with a corpse.
Extreme Scenes. involving torture, mutilation or stories involving murder or brutal acts that cause the death or serious injury of the character.
(a) an act which threatens a person's life,
(b) an act which results, or is likely to result, in serious injury to a person's anus, breasts or genitals,
(c) rape or other non-consensual penetrative sexual activity,
(d) an act which involves or appears to involve sexual interference with a human corpse,
(e) a person performing or appearing to perform an act of intercourse or oral sex with an animal (whether dead or alive), and a reasonable person looking at the image would think that any such person or animal was real.
But I've seen some stories containing this?
Yes there are some stories containing death, but these usually involve fantasy and are non-violent in nature, also some stories were posted to the site before these guides were in place.
There are some sections of the site that have stories where the character dies, Vore being one subject, but there should be no graphic description of the death scene.
There are also some containing non-consensual acts but again these are fantasy. All non-consensual act stories are marked with 'nc' in the storycodes.
There are NO stories containing pedophilia, sexual abuse or eroticism involving children, if do you see any please let me know.
The legal age for all characters on the Plaza will now be 18 years, stories that use characters younger than this will now be rejected or requested that the author rewrite those scenes.
I will allow memories of childhood bondage to be used, as long as it's between similar age groups. And as long as it's clearly established that the adult character is remembering their early experiences and it's only a background to the main story.
And if you look at the caveats to the guidelines, there is one that I wonder at:
I will allow memories of childhood bondage to be used, as long as it's between similar age groups. And as long as it's clearly established that the adult character is remembering their early experiences and it's only a background to the main story.
Do we really need this? I don't think disguising it as a "memory" stops it being what it is at all. Clearly, it's more important how it's presented, and what level of detail is used. Is it titillating or pornographic? Or is it simply narration of past horrors, clearly such, not visited in detail?
As it happens, I don't think I've come across a Plaza story that does this (no doubt there is at least one), but apparently it was important enough to get its own special get-out clause. Does anyone know why?
In the early days of the Plaza stories were coded by Gromet and the story code list was a reference for visitors. Today stories are mostly self-coded by the author. I am currently working on an expanded list that will act as a writer's guide to coding.
I have to agree with Amy, story codes are a hold-over from the newsgroups. I believe a one paragraph synopsis provided by the author, much like the dust jacket of a novel, would be more beneficial to readers, but as story codes are used by most sites and readers are familiar with them coding will continue for the foreseeable future.
To the caveat question, I believe those exist for legal reasons as the servers that host the Plaza are in Germany and Switzerland.
I believe the "childhood memory" exclusion clause may be related to the understanding that a lot of us are curious about where our fetishes originated. Many (most?) have some sort of childhood experiences that spawned our current desires and kinkiness. I've written many times about my early bondage-related games but have sent little of that to the Plaza. In my early tale, The Agency, there are two small vignettes at the end called His Story and Her Story which are the only such things in my Plaza oeuvre.
It's a very fine line between offering childhood memories as a reason for current interests, and using children to titillate. I understand and approve of erring on the side of caution. I use my "memory tales" only as a personal excursion into my origins and no longer share any of that except occasionally in one-on-one conversations.
Max
Max is right - The childhood memories was added so some early bondage or self bondage scenes that started the characters particular fetish could explain why the character now likes to be tied or self-tied. I only allow scenes like where the character gets tied to a tree whilst playing cowboys & indians etc, or they develop a liking for self bondage or mummification when they were younger and experimented - like most of us do.
The idea being that only characters of the same age group are involved ie: teen/teen, not adult/child.
If there are any stories that readers object to - please feel free to write to me with your concerns or post them on the forum for discussion. I am open to suggestions, feedback, ideas etc.
Story coding was introduced after a suggestion by readers comments on the first version of the forum, it was basically to give readers some idea as to the level of content as was based on the ASSM newsgroup versions. It can be updated or fixed to whatever you want it to be, most of them have never been changed since the start, so maybe it's time to establish some new definitions.