Plaza Forum

I was just wanting to get a feel of how people feel about the word 'cunt'. I see it in stories and immediately feel that the was written by a male author.

When I read or hear it, it bothers me due to the 'negative connotation' usually associated with it.

I would especially like to hear what you ladies think.

Dana -- EPL

Thanks MsBehavin. I sure hacked the word connotations for some reason. I have fixed it now.

EPL

My view is its an ugly word with ugly connotations.

I guess in some stories it could be used in context ie name calling (and I'd tolerate it) but I dislike it intensely as a noun of anatomy.

It gets to me too MsBehavin. I read it, or hear it, and something just doesn't seem right. I let it pass here only because of the environment we are in. In everyday life, I despise it.

Dana -- EPL

I know some people get hot under the collar (not in a sexual way) about the use of such words.

I do not mean to belittle such views, for I like moral standards as much as the next person.

But a word is just a word.  It is HOW it is used that offends.

The word 'love' is universally liked, but used in a sentence that says "I do not love you anymore" is universally disliked.

In the heat of passion, talking dirty to some is [allegedly] a turn on. "Oh I want to lick your sexy cunt until you melt like an ice cream".

Or perhaps Daffy is simply a stupid cunt.

Daffy

My thought on this is it depends on context

If the author was using 'cunt' in their descriptive narrative they are being a bit low brow

If they only use it in context of their character's spoken words or thoughts it speaks more to their character definition

I am from another culture and I can't relate to this problem. The big thing here is blasphemy.

I know us Brits are not supposed to talk politics or religion (least we offend someone, even accidentally), nevertheless, I totally support Arkane's comments.

Whilst blasphemy is not specifically mentioned in the site rules, it could well be seen as abuse, and as such could be justifiably reported to a moderator.

That said, I have found the vast majority of people here do not wish to cause offense to fellow readers.  And we certainly do not desire to anger God.

Daffy

as a writer i use the word cunt at times. Mostly to shock and add the negative connotations to the story. But it is a risk as some people hate the word and it will turn them off your story.

M88

I must be a bit naive to the 'C' words origin as I am unaware of its blasphemous contextual usage. I sincerely hope I have not offended anyone by running the poll and/or posing the question.

I have recently read a story in which the narrator used it as the only noun to describe the vaginal area, and, it bothered me and I could not finish reading the story. I found there to be a complete loss of imagination and/or knowledge of the female anatomy and was wondering if others were as put off by the usage.

I have used the word in one of my stories, not as a synonym for the vagina, but as a derogatory towards the female.

Again, sorry if there was any offense taken by anyone.

Dana -- EPL

Quote from: ElectroPainLover on August 15, 2016, 02:34:16 PM
I must be a bit naive to the 'C' words origin as I am unaware of its blasphemous contextual usage. I sincerely hope I have not offended anyone by running the poll and/or posing the question.

I think that was a tangent to the conversation. I took Arkane's intent to be blasphemy in general was more offensive than the word 'cunt' where he/she is from.

Hi Lora's Pa,

That was what I had originally thought when the I first read the reply, however, Daffy also referenced it in a political/religious nature. This made me wonder if there was something that I was missing with regard to a blasphemous nature.

I do not want, nor do I wish, to start any type of negativity or seem as I try to stir controversies; I was just trying to get a pulse as to others thoughts on its usage.

Like I say, I don't particularly like the word and found a story which used it as its only form of noun for a woman's sexual anatomy to be a bit too vulgar, even in this setting.

Dana -- EPL

I am not aware that the C word is linked to blaspheming, other than a general requirement not to use bad language, to be pure of thought and speech etc.

Whilst the use of such language might be impolite, I always thought that blaspheming was to say something against God.

Unless Arkane has a different view.

Daffy

Daffy,

That was my belief as well, however, where I became confused was with your post:

Quote from: Daffy Duck on August 15, 2016, 09:27:55 AM
I know us Brits are not supposed to talk politics or religion (least we offend someone, even accidentally), nevertheless, I totally support Arkane's comments.

Whilst blasphemy is not specifically mentioned in the site rules, it could well be seen as abuse, and as such could be justifiably reported to a moderator.

That said, I have found the vast majority of people here do not wish to cause offense to fellow readers.  And we certainly do not desire to anger God.

Daffy

...which made me think that I had entwined myself into a political/religious theory for which I had no intentions of.

Dana -- EPL

Ok...I just got what Arkane was saying...duh...dumb, dimwitted Dana finally read the context of the sentence Arkane wrote.

Not that cunt is blasphemous, but that in the UK, blasphemy is the big taboo.

Got it now...so sorry for the hoopla and misunderstanding.

Dana -- EPL

Umm a further possible misunderstanding Dana....... ??

I took it to mean :-

Where Arkane is from, blasphemy is a big taboo.

However, I am not sure where Arkane is from. So he might be talking about his culture / religion rather than a place of abode.   

Daffy

Dang Daffy...caught me again!

I hope I get more than three strikes!  ;D

I shall laugh if Arkane says he IS from the UK.

Daffy

Quote from: Daffy Duck on August 15, 2016, 05:46:06 PM
I always thought that blaspheming was to say something against God.

Unless Arkane has a different view.

No, that's right. I'm from Italy, you can find a lot of sex-related and expletive abuse just like in the english language (probably more) but this stuff is not so terrible. You may say the equivalent of "cunt" and, while sure it's a bad word, it's not a big deal.

Abuse against God (the virgin Mary, the Saints, Jesus Christ and so on), while extremely popular and the source of a whole lexicon that has no match in the english language, is seen as a blood curling offense by believers. So while you hear blasfemy quite often, you need some understanding about when and where you can use it (if you want to).
I've noticed that many english speakers can't understand this and treat italian blasphemy as just colorful or "fun," for example at the end of the video here: https://youtu.be/8tAx5zcMH44
You can be sure that an italian anchorman would lose his job after using that word (well, it actually happened more than once).

Darn it...EPL hanging head low,

I will use the number of kilometers between Rome and London as my number...I was kinda hoping you were in the UK...but, kind of happy your not.

The number of kilometers, multiplied by two, (for being wrong twice) as the number of seconds I will have to spend enduring a fair amount of electro-torture for making an incorrect assumption.  ???

I came up with 1879.827 km...just darn glad you don't live in Australia Arkane...which only gives me an hour when rounded off, then, the multiplying factor of two. I can handle two hours...may have to be wrong more often. ;)

I know what I'll be doing in a few hours.

Dana -- EPL

Hi Arkane,

Just curious, does the "C" word carry any meaning in Italian other than a crude reference to the female anatomy? In street language in the USA it's used in place of bitch when making a derogatory comment about a woman. Mostly because bitch has been adopted to reference ones girlfriend/wife in regular conversation, which is why I don't care for either word.

Quote from: 64Fordman on August 15, 2016, 10:54:28 PM
Hi Arkane,

Just curious, does the "C" word carry any meaning in Italian other than a crude reference to the female anatomy?

Well... you asked. It can be used in general reference to women. "This place is boring, there's not c..."

Also, it's used to form a word with the suffix s- (that means a lack of).
So, just like fortuna means good luck and sfortuna means the bad luck, "sc..." is another word for ill luck or misfortune. That is, a situation with no xxx. If you consider the importance the pussy has in the italian mind, it makes sense.
;D

It also can be used as an exclamation of surprise: c...!

Quote from: Arkane on August 15, 2016, 09:09:05 PMI've noticed that many english speakers can't understand this and treat italian blasphemy as just colorful or "fun," for example at the end of the video here: https://youtu.be/8tAx5zcMH44

Buon giorno Arkane,

I watched the video. I heard Gordon Ramsey use the F word, for which he is famous. At the end of the video, he seemed to mutter something which I could not quite hear or understand. Apologies for my lack of Italian, but was this what you were referring too ? 

May I say 'many English speakers' have very limited Italian (good day, good evening, and thank you, is the limit of mine), so I am not sure why you think such dumb people as us English know how to blaspheme in Italian. We are the worst linguists in the whole of Europe !

As a God fearing person I would not blaspheme. As an Englishman who respects and loves Italy, Italians and Italian culture, I hope that you don't think all of us are the same.

Grazie,

Daffy

Don't like the word, it's like a bucket of cold water thrown on my back during... well you get the idea.

Jackie.

I'm like Jackie: Don't like it, don't use it, consider it demeaning and crude and on a par with the "n" word.

I'll defend your right to use any word you want as long as you understand I may stop reading when I come across words I don't like. There aren't many, but this is one.

Max

Quote from: MaxRoper on August 16, 2016, 06:49:11 PM
I'm like Jackie: Don't like it, don't use it, consider it demeaning and crude and on a par with the "n" word.

Hi Max,

That's the way I feel about it myself. I have only used it once in one of my stories, but, I needed to in order to get across what the character thought of the protagonist. It was one of the last lines of the story.

I have run across plenty of stories that use it quite frequently; the story that prompted me putting up the poll and this thread; and was the only word used to describe the vaginal area and the narrative referral to the woman. I didn't get halfway through the story before having to quit due to the frequency of use.

I, too, am appalled by the 'N' word, and the 'C' word is it's equal in my eyes. I can look past their usage if only used in related context and extremely seldom.

Dana -- EPL

Quote from: Daffy Duck on August 16, 2016, 09:36:13 AM

I watched the video. I heard Gordon Ramsey use the F word, for which he is famous. At the end of the video, he seemed to mutter something which I could not quite hear or understand. Apologies for my lack of Italian, but was this what you were referring too ? 

Yes, this is the most common blasphemy word in italian
https://italiots.wordpress.com/2012/09/07/italian-profanities/

As for strangers (English included) using italian bad words, it seems these have a weird international attraction, so it just happens. No problem for me.

If the shoe fits.  If it is the right word for the story, use it.  It has impact, it has meaning, it establishes a personality or whatever.  A writer sometimes needs to let the story run ahead of the author, and if that word comes up, use it.  Of course, a writer should worry and fret about every word they put on the page.  Remember what mark Twain said, the difference between the right word and the almost right word is the difference between the lightning and the lightning bug.

I once saw an adult film where the lady kept referring to it as her box.  "I want you to fill my box".  It just didn't work for me.  Wrong word to use there.

But maybe I am just a stupid lovebox.

thanks
Siobhann

Same pictures used by Siobhann and Dana.  Is this a club, or can anyone join.......  LOL

Quote from: Daffy Duck on August 18, 2016, 05:29:45 PM
Same pictures used by Siobhann and Dana.  Is this a club, or can anyone join.......  LOL

I saw someone else with that profile picture too

Siobhann,

I understand that sometimes the "c" word fits the scene due to the personality or situation, but, my original reason for putting up the poll and posing the question was because of a story I read used it as the 'only' descriptive word for the vagina.

Daffy,

There's just not enough pictures I found from the stock selection that fits me. I like the spread-eagle and use it for most of my play...and this one fit. I wish I could be more original, but, it's hard to get a picture when flying solo.

Dana

Daffy,

the pictures were just a lucky accident.  I liked it so I chose it from the list.  No one has told me about a spread eagle club.

But that doesn't mean there isn't one. ???

ElectroPainLover,

I agree with you about the negative connotation of the word, and I certainly do not use it in polite society. That connotation is what makes it a good tool for writers, I guess I am just coming out against self-censorship. 

And also that is a really cool avatar pic you have there. ;D

Quote from: siobhann on August 18, 2016, 07:26:04 PM
ElectroPainLover,

I agree with you about the negative connotation of the word, and I certainly do not use it in polite society. That connotation is what makes it a good tool for writers, I guess I am just coming out against self-censorship.

I, too, do not believe in censorship of thoughts or words (except when they violate the innocence and exploitation of our children).

Again, I was trying to point out how some of our writer's can over-use words and show a lack of word-power when not varying the usage of descriptions to describe a person's anatomy.

Quote from: siobhann on August 18, 2016, 07:26:04 PM
And also that is a really cool avatar pic you have there. ;D

I think your avatar is pretty cool too Siobhann.  ;)

Dana -- EPL

I agree with Loras Pa6, I think there are at least 3 of you with the same avatar.

So I think you have already started your own club, of sorts.

Cheers to Loras Pa6, Siobhann and Dana for your replies.

Daffy

I am not offended if it is used about me personally..  everyone to their own prefrences

Slightly off topic, but I have a Irish friend who basically calls every one with the C-word. The prefix just varies.
One might be Stupid C**** where other could be just Fu****g C***.
I have seen him using also words like  disgusting, slutty and toothless used as a prefix to C-word.

I love the word and but I hate the way that it is used sometimes. It is a very powerful word. To use it often would be to drain the power from it and that would be a terrible thing to do. I like that some words have this great power. When you see it used well, you start to think, "Oh! Well, we're going to step on up to that level then..." It kind of adds a sense of excitement to the proceedings. If it is not used well, then it the wielder becomes offensive, off-putting, ugly - but I don't blame the word itself.

<>--+-

I think you said it very well Subgrrl. The reason I posed the poll and question is because of a story that used cunt as the ONLY word used to refer to the female anatomy. It got old quick. I understand the protagonist was not a nice fellow, but still, a little variation would have been welcome. I have purposefully refrained from mentioning the story and author for respect and figured readers would find it on there own. I believe it can be used correctly as long as it is used in the proper context and mixed with other descriptive words.

Dana -- EPL

A word that bothers me more than it should is "masturbate". Not only do I hate the way that it sounds, but there is some sort of shame sewn in to my psyche with that word. Sure, I love to masturbate, but not with that word in mind...

Masturbate has been a word I never cared much for myself. I don't use it much in conversation or writing. I too enjoy the act but never think much about the word or the fact that I am masturbating but more about why and what I plan to achieve from it...at least when I am not chaste as I spend much of my time.

As I use masturbate so seldom it had never occured to me on whether I liked the word or not. After reading your post and thinking about it Subgrrl...I too am not a huge fan of the word.

Dana -- EPL

I always thought the fuss about a name in "Harry Potter" was a bit screwd - and I realize you guys get upset about words like cunt or fuck.

Well, I live in a country where kids in kindergardens knows how to say fuck and even if it's not widely popular anymore, you'll hear it used publicly if you spend 10 minutes at a bench some place where young people gather. Like in a shop where two employees was talking about a third: Fuck Camilla, one said to the other. They both was very confused when I urged them not to do so (fuck Camilla) in the shop. Why so? Because the words is just an underlining with no real connection to having sex.

So in Denmark you'll hear people say things like: "Fuck, I like this". Or "Don't fuck with me".

For me cunt is the right word to use in a sex-related context. The medical doctor will examine her vagina, but her lover will want her cunt swollen. Just like the medical doctor will examine his penis while she will want his cock hard. However if the doctor was talking about her cunt when discussing her diseases with some colleague, he'd in my opinion disclose he really would like to fuck her too.

For me neither is wrong or offensive - it's just words used in a context and they stimulate my imagination and insight in the mood.

I do know that some people refer to the woman as a whole as a cunt - which in my opinion really is a waste! If this was the case, those people really should use an inflateable doll or simply use their hands to yank off - a woman is so much more than a cunt.

TeaSer

I don't really like it, but it doesn't bother me that much. Still my observation is that often, if it's used in a story, the story isn't that good in general.

It's as jarring as finding tolerate spelled with two Ls.

As it's generally used to denigrate women, or their anatomy, if that fits the character, it has its place. If you aren't trying to portray horrible people, best to avoid it I suspect.

Thank you for pointing out my mispelling there Amy...never noticed it.  ;D

As a mature Brit, I get pained by an increasing spinelessness among our younger citizens, coupled with an extreme self-opinionation which is disrespectful of the consequences of their own actions - they want to have their cake and eat it. That this should be typified as a part of our national character is a complete perversion of our historical acquis, where the stiff upper lip disdains such folly as beneath us, and yet it is real, a sign of the immaturity of the younger generation, who seem not to have heard of the kid's syndrome "sticks and stones may break my ones, but names will never hurt me".

The first thing to say, which sadly is clearly needful if really rather unnecessary, is that an adult differentiates between the person posting as themselves, even if as an avatar persona as here, and as an author of fiction portraying a totally different fictitious character: this is the content of the tale itself. If you can't tell the difference, then you really do need to get psychological help. Premeditated conflation of the two is simply malign and the Mods should sanction it, to my mind.

The second is to determine our reaction to it. If the term is used to address the reader directly as the covert third party in the scene, then the author crosses that line: on the other hand, if used as discourse between characters, then there are a number of psychological dyamics. Firstly, the physiological: the author has the choice of many words of greater or lesser delicacy, of which this is towards the more robust end, however can perfectly acceptably be used to portray an unacceptable character. They exist, so it's a matter of unacceptable Bowdlerism to force such circumlocution as "she played the trumpet in bed", one of the worst original offenders as the source was from Shakespeare: an "s" was removed, producing images of an entirely new perversion when it comes to fellatio, her and the rest of The Shillingbury Blowers, Brassed Off and The Full Monty combined! "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet", was the original author's comment on such, and it's entirely plausible that Shakespeare was using the term euphemistically to address this question as a result of the subjunctive clause. To refuse to accept that horrible characters exist is juvenile, the world is full of them. A second sub-instance is the intimate, "you have the sweetest, prettiest cunt I've ever seen". A third is affectionate, "you silly cunt", a fourth intense, "he slid into her cunt as she closed her eyes in utter rapture", a fifth, cockney rhyming slang (a Burk is a denegration of a reference to the upper-class twits who are members of the Berkshire Hunt, which rhymes with cunt, however in the affected accent where the first half of the County name is mispronounced indicating exactly how the twit - itself an affectionate diminution of twat interpolated with clit - would speak, as Cockney should ideally have a witty subtext as well as the rhyme) - I leave it to you to cite further cases, I'm not Roget writing his thesaurus here.

A third is the linguistic semantics, the beat and pace of the phrase itself. Short words have impact, if he were to replace the term with "pudendum", for example, it would affect the entire dynamic of the phrase. That is his prerogative, to be direct if he chooses. He's supposedly addressing grown-ups, the word exists, you recognise what it means, live with it. He's making a point. Indeed, so must we to discuss its use! If you're upset about such matters, what are you doing here? Engaged in a moral crusade rooted in your own values? If so, where's the immorality between honest directness recognising a sometimes indelicate truth, or a mealy-mouthed circumlocution of the same? Perhaps it's your values which need review. Just because an ancient text taken out of context says something doesn't make it true, the same game can twist the texts of most Holy Scriptures of all religions.

Tom makes a good point.

C-STAR-STAR-STAR can be used in ways that are somewhat positive.

I have plenty of horrible people in my stories, and so you will find it there, occasionally. Used by horrible people, to be horrid.
I don't think I've ever used it in a romantic context. It guess we all write without our own little box. Tom's has different boundaries to mine. That's good, I think.

That's essential, I think. The world has horrors enough, it may be why people turn increasingly to fiction as life remains brutal. At least you don't have the problems all Richards have...and perhaps have a fresh angle to explore. And your use of without does appeal to the mediaevalist in me!
It's interesting is that other languages are often less hung up than we are. The Belgians even have a top lawyer by the name of Conrotte, "Redpussy". The French word for silly, stupid is "con".